Is Vince Carter a Hall Of Famer


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Posted · Report post

The late 90's were insanely weak with regards to perimeter players. INSANELY! Guys like Tim Hardaway, Vin Baker, Mitch RIchmond, and young Grant Hill made 1st and 2nd teams all-NBA...

Richmond has 1 season in 97-98 where he's on par with prime Carter. Vince was at that level for 5-7 years. I've seen a lot of Mitch Richmond and I can say with no hesitation that Vince Carter is a significantly better basketball player. And I hate Vince's guts too...

So now you're saying all of these people were not quality players? And Vin Baker was a PF. Not exactly relevant in a discussion about Vince Carter and Mitch Richmond. Not to mention Mitch Richmond had a number of seasons on par or better than Vince Carter.

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Posted · Report post

It's the Basketball Hall Of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame.

Thank you sir.My point exactly.

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Posted · Report post

Thank you sir.My point exactly.

I got you bruh.

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Posted · Report post

So now you're saying all of these people were not quality players? And Vin Baker was a PF. Not exactly relevant in a discussion about Vince Carter and Mitch Richmond. Not to mention Mitch Richmond had a number of seasons on par or better than Vince Carter.

They were quality players but guys like Tim Hardaway and to a lesser extent Richmond and Baker wouldn't make All-NBA teams in any other era. Maybe a 3rd team here and there...

Richmond's best season is 26 5 and 4 and his other years are quite a bit worse. Let's look at Carter:

99-00: 26 6 and 6

00-01: 28 5 and 4

01-02: 25 5 and 4

02-03: injured

03-04: 23 5 and 5

04-05: 25 5 and 4 (28 6 and 5 with NJ)

05-06: 24 6 and 4

06-07: 25 6 and 5

Some of it isn't even just stats. Carter was a better penetrator than Mitch, a better passer, a better defender and he was still a very good shooter, about 39% from 3 in his prime. Richmond for his playoff career averages 20 5 and 3, Carter 23 6 and 5. Vince is a much better playoff performer who also happened to play in a lot more playoff games.

Vino likes this

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Posted · Report post

It's funny to me because I think most of you never actually saw Mitch Richmond play. And from people saying Vince was a good defender, it makes me think you actually never watched Vince Carter play either. And again, Vince quit on his team as the "leader"... faked the severity of injuries many times. That's really who you want in the HOF? I'll take the guy that wasn't a quitter, who never complained even though he was traded to one of the worst run franchises in the NBA at the time. He was also awarded by getting his number retired with the Kings. Do you think TOR, NJ, ORL or PHO are going to retire Vince's number?

And for all of Carter's 8 All-Star appearances to Mitch Richmond's 6, Mitch actually won an All-Star MVP.

celtic fan likes this

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Posted · Report post

It's funny to me because I think most of you never actually saw Mitch Richmond play. And from people saying Vince was a good defender, it makes me think you actually never watched Vince Carter play either. And again, Vince quit on his team as the "leader"... faked the severity of injuries many times. That's really who you want in the HOF? I'll take the guy that wasn't a quitter, who never complained even though he was traded to one of the worst run franchises in the NBA at the time. He was also awarded by getting his number retired with the Kings. Do you think TOR, NJ, ORL or PHO are going to retire Vince's number?

And for all of Carter's 8 All-Star appearances to Mitch Richmond's 6, Mitch actually won an All-Star MVP.

totally agreed. (repped)

Nick C for most under rated poster!

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It's funny to me because I think most of you never actually saw Mitch Richmond play. And from people saying Vince was a good defender, it makes me think you actually never watched Vince Carter play either. And again, Vince quit on his team as the "leader"... faked the severity of injuries many times. That's really who you want in the HOF? I'll take the guy that wasn't a quitter, who never complained even though he was traded to one of the worst run franchises in the NBA at the time. He was also awarded by getting his number retired with the Kings. Do you think TOR, NJ, ORL or PHO are going to retire Vince's number?

And for all of Carter's 8 All-Star appearances to Mitch Richmond's 6, Mitch actually won an All-Star MVP.

I've seen both play and I didn't say Carter is a good defender, just better than Richmond. He's also better off the dribble, better finisher, better rebounder, better at drawing fouls, better at passing etc. Basically just better all-around. I hate Vince a lot but he is a better player than Richmond.

It's not Vince's fault he changed teams a lot. I still think the Raptors might retire his number once the dust settles...

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Posted · Report post

how in the hell can you say it's not Vince's fault he changed teams? He totally quit on the Raptors and sulked until they traded him for 25 cents on the dollar. Hell he even admitted that he wasn't trying in his final 1/2 season there.

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Posted · Report post

how in the hell can you say it's not Vince's fault he changed teams? He totally quit on the Raptors and sulked until they traded him for 25 cents on the dollar. Hell he even admitted that he wasn't trying in his final 1/2 season there.

It's definitely his fault he was traded out of Toronto. He was a total idiot and I still hate him for that but for being traded out of Jersey and now Orlando? I don't think he did anything wrong there. That being said, I still think TO will retire his number.

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It's definitely his fault he was traded out of Toronto. He was a total idiot and I still hate him for that but for being traded out of Jersey and now Orlando? I don't think he did anything wrong there. That being said, I still think TO will retire his number.

mostly because they have no one else who's number is worth retiring, doesn't mean that they should though.

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The Raptors should retire his number because he made basketball in Toronto, in a country where no one really cared about basketball untill Vince did his thing there. In addition, he did all he could for that franchise and still loves going there which is pretty amazing since every person there seems to hate him. He wasn't exactly Mister Perfect but it wasn't all his fault that the Raptors faded and eventually traded him, but it's easier to blame it all on the superstar.

About Richmond, Djoker is right that Vince is better because of his more complete game. Not to say Mitch wasn't a solid player because he was, but Vince outplays him in every aspect of the game and was a league-wide phenomenon. In other words, every NBA fan knows Vince Carter, not all know Mitch Richmond.

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How can you say Vince was more complete? The stats show he was marginally better at passing and yes I'll give you rebounding. Mitch was the better 3 pt shooter and 1.2 ppg is a wash IMO. So even if Vince MARGINALLY outperformed Mitch in scoring and passing does that make him a surefire HOF'er but Mitch should be ignored? I think both are very good not HOF material players, but Vince's eye pleasing style is clouding judgement.

Vince Carter is more 'known' than Mitch Richmond because of his dunks, not because of his spectacular skills. His game was better eye candy, but Mitch is on the same level as a player, he just played on one of the worst franchises for the prime of his career.

When you look at their career stats Vince Carter doesn't have anything that noticeably stands out ahead of Mitch. As my original point was that if VC is a certain HOF'er then Mitch Richmond should be considered too.

As for Carter's playoff stats... 41.5 FG% vs 47.9FG% is my retort.

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It's not all just about stats, again the stats show that Vince is a bit better than Mitch but Vince was a more complete player because of his better overall skills and not all show up on the stat sheet (peneration, defense, finishing ability, scoring in traffic, playing above the rim...).

Again, Vince played for basketball dwarf Toronto and brought life to that franchise and was then traded to a fading Nets team that he again brought to life. So don't argue that Vince played for superior teams.

And for those shooting percentages, Vince wasn't always on fire shooting-wise in the playoffs but he did put up huge numbers and to make his case here: he did play far more playoff games and Mitch played 2 of his 4 (actually 3 because he played a total 4 minutes in the 02 playoffs) with Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin in GS. Vince meanwhile was practically alone in Toronto, had only Richard Jefferson in NJ and just wasn't able to capitalize in Orlando.

And again, Vince won over many fans for the NBA so he influenced basketball way more than Richmond. This does need to be taken into consideration, I mean isn't that the only reason Yao will be entered? Yes, it is. So it's more than stats alone.

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Posted · Report post

It's the Basketball Hall Of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame.

I know, but roughly 15 NBA players per decade still get in. Others come in addition to that.

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Let me give it a shot:

1 Shaq

2. Kobe

3. Tim Duncan

4. Ray Allen

5. Dwyane Wade

6. LeBron James

7. Kevin Garnett

8. Dirk Nowitzki

9. Paul Pierce

10. Jason Kidd

11. Chris Paul

12. Steve Nash

13. Derrick Rose

14. Carmello Antony

15. Dwight Howard

16. Yao Ming (IMO politics will get him in, to appease the Chinese)

17. Allen Iverson

18. Tony Parker

19. Gary Payton

20. Pau Gasol

21. Chris Webber

22. Alzono Mouring

23. Dikembe Mutombo

24. Manu Ginobilli

25. Chauncey Billups

26. Deron Williams

27 Blake Griffin

28 John Wall

Some of those are definitely too early to tell but they played prior to 2011, a few will fail but a few guys we're not sure of will improve.

Ginobilli,Parker, Billups, Gasol may not have the statistics but have the post season credentials (re: a title) that puts them above Vince IMO.

Yao as I stated will be a political pick IMO, so it may not go but I can't see the first Chinese star not making it in. The first 12 picks should be 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer's IMO.

That's a decent list. I still think, though that Carter will get in, eventually.

Leaving aside the young guns about whom it is still too early to tell: Carmelo Anthony, I would say, will not get in. At least not based on his accolades so far. He needs... well, either another 3-4 ASGs or an All-NBA First Team selection, or obviously - a Championship ring, to get in. Right now - no. He is basically the new version of Bernard King and King isn't in the HOF either.

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Posted · Report post

mostly because they have no one else who's number is worth retiring, doesn't mean that they should though.

To be fair now looking at it objectively and it's very hard because I hate Vince, I think the Raptors should retire his number. He still did put in 7 great years of basketball and energized our franchise the way no one had done previously or since. The only period in history when our team was relevant and even a dark horse in the playoffs was when Carter was at the helm. I hate the guy but I can't ignore the years he played brilliantly for us because of the 1/2 season he slacked. He *** up but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything good in his career.

Most people outside Toronto don't know this but I've watched Carter through out his career even with the Nets. He always played to win, not to put up great numbers, and he was always very upset when his teams lost. My stomach was turning when we got upset by the Carter-led Nets in Round 1 but I appreciate his game.

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To be fair now looking at it objectively and it's very hard because I hate Vince, I think the Raptors should retire his number. He still did put in 7 great years of basketball and energized out franchise the way no one had done previously or since. The only period in history when our team was relevant and even a dark horse in the playoffs was when Carter was at the helm. I hate the guy but I can't ignore the years he played brilliantly for us because of the 1/2 season he slacked. He *** up but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything good in his career.

Most people outside Toronto don't know this but I've watched Carter through out his career even with the Nets. He always played to win, not to put up great numbers, and he was always very upset when his teams lost. My stomach was turning when we got upset by the Carter-led Nets in Round 1 but I appreciate his game.

Too put it shorter: Vince has always been too much of a nice guy, just like David Robinson. He would rather let a teammate win a game then doing it all himself, something Kobe knows nothing about. But in the end, he should be taken that shot because he's the best player on the floor and good at it. But again, Vince just has always been too nice.

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How can you say Vince was more complete? The stats show he was marginally better at passing and yes I'll give you rebounding. Mitch was the better 3 pt shooter and 1.2 ppg is a wash IMO. So even if Vince MARGINALLY outperformed Mitch in scoring and passing does that make him a surefire HOF'er but Mitch should be ignored? I think both are very good not HOF material players, but Vince's eye pleasing style is clouding judgement.

Vince Carter is more 'known' than Mitch Richmond because of his dunks, not because of his spectacular skills. His game was better eye candy, but Mitch is on the same level as a player, he just played on one of the worst franchises for the prime of his career.

When you look at their career stats Vince Carter doesn't have anything that noticeably stands out ahead of Mitch. As my original point was that if VC is a certain HOF'er then Mitch Richmond should be considered too.

As for Carter's playoff stats... 41.5 FG% vs 47.9FG% is my retort.

People forget to realize that we are talking about something called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of super amazing basketball players.

Vince Carter was a on the fence HOF caliber basketball player, but when you consider everything else about him... he has to be a HOFer.

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Hall of Fame is not just about accomplishments. Whoever is THE best at something, he's entering the HoF. Carter is THE best dunker ever and he re-revolutionized dunking which is the number one NBA product in the RS. Dunks = show = marketing etc.

He was one of the most talented players of the decade and generally (some say he was more talented than Kobe) but his work ethic contained him. Sadly.

He was a great scorer in his prime and he was almost unstoppable when he was in the zone.

They asked Shaq once that since he has played with Penny, Kobe and Wade, with which other player he'd like to play and he said Vince in order to get him (?) to the next level.

Carter's potentials were crazy but even though he didn't reach them, he was one of the best of the decade and he deserves to be in the Hall imho.

Too put it shorter: Vince has always been too much of a nice guy, just like David Robinson. He would rather let a teammate win a game then doing it all himself, something Kobe knows nothing about. But in the end, he should be taken that shot because he's the best player on the floor and good at it. But again, Vince just has always been too nice.

It's nice to see that there is an issue that we completely agree!!!

Well, he's our favorite player.

Vino likes this

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Posted · Report post

With some of the guys that got in he def can, plus he's the greatest dunker ever (tied with 'Nique imo).

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Posted · Report post

No. Great player though. But just because your great does not necessarily mean you should be in the Hall of Fame. His numbers and accomplishments need to better.

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Posted · Report post

No. Great player though. But just because your great does not necessarily mean you should be in the Hall of Fame. His numbers and accomplishments need to better.

Reggie Miller is all I have to say to posts like this.

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