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Is Vince Carter a Hall Of Famer


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#61 ONLINE   celtic fan

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 05:30 PM


It's definitely his fault he was traded out of Toronto. He was a total idiot and I still hate him for that but for being traded out of Jersey and now Orlando? I don't think he did anything wrong there. That being said, I still think TO will retire his number.

mostly because they have no one else who's number is worth retiring, doesn't mean that they should though.

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#62 OFFLINE   Vino

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 02:11 AM

The Raptors should retire his number because he made basketball in Toronto, in a country where no one really cared about basketball untill Vince did his thing there. In addition, he did all he could for that franchise and still loves going there which is pretty amazing since every person there seems to hate him. He wasn't exactly Mister Perfect but it wasn't all his fault that the Raptors faded and eventually traded him, but it's easier to blame it all on the superstar.

About Richmond, Djoker is right that Vince is better because of his more complete game. Not to say Mitch wasn't a solid player because he was, but Vince outplays him in every aspect of the game and was a league-wide phenomenon. In other words, every NBA fan knows Vince Carter, not all know Mitch Richmond.

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#63 ONLINE   celtic fan

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 02:54 AM

How can you say Vince was more complete? The stats show he was marginally better at passing and yes I'll give you rebounding. Mitch was the better 3 pt shooter and 1.2 ppg is a wash IMO. So even if Vince MARGINALLY outperformed Mitch in scoring and passing does that make him a surefire HOF'er but Mitch should be ignored? I think both are very good not HOF material players, but Vince's eye pleasing style is clouding judgement.

Vince Carter is more 'known' than Mitch Richmond because of his dunks, not because of his spectacular skills. His game was better eye candy, but Mitch is on the same level as a player, he just played on one of the worst franchises for the prime of his career.

When you look at their career stats Vince Carter doesn't have anything that noticeably stands out ahead of Mitch. As my original point was that if VC is a certain HOF'er then Mitch Richmond should be considered too.

As for Carter's playoff stats... 41.5 FG% vs 47.9FG% is my retort.

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#64 OFFLINE   Vino

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 03:20 AM

It's not all just about stats, again the stats show that Vince is a bit better than Mitch but Vince was a more complete player because of his better overall skills and not all show up on the stat sheet (peneration, defense, finishing ability, scoring in traffic, playing above the rim...).

Again, Vince played for basketball dwarf Toronto and brought life to that franchise and was then traded to a fading Nets team that he again brought to life. So don't argue that Vince played for superior teams.

And for those shooting percentages, Vince wasn't always on fire shooting-wise in the playoffs but he did put up huge numbers and to make his case here: he did play far more playoff games and Mitch played 2 of his 4 (actually 3 because he played a total 4 minutes in the 02 playoffs) with Tim Hardaway and Chris Mullin in GS. Vince meanwhile was practically alone in Toronto, had only Richard Jefferson in NJ and just wasn't able to capitalize in Orlando.

And again, Vince won over many fans for the NBA so he influenced basketball way more than Richmond. This does need to be taken into consideration, I mean isn't that the only reason Yao will be entered? Yes, it is. So it's more than stats alone.

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#65 OFFLINE   Indy

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:19 AM

It's the Basketball Hall Of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame.


I know, but roughly 15 NBA players per decade still get in. Others come in addition to that.

#66 OFFLINE   Indy

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:24 AM


Let me give it a shot:
1 Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Tim Duncan
4. Ray Allen
5. Dwyane Wade
6. LeBron James
7. Kevin Garnett
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Paul Pierce
10. Jason Kidd
11. Chris Paul
12. Steve Nash
13. Derrick Rose
14. Carmello Antony
15. Dwight Howard
16. Yao Ming (IMO politics will get him in, to appease the Chinese)
17. Allen Iverson
18. Tony Parker
19. Gary Payton
20. Pau Gasol
21. Chris Webber
22. Alzono Mouring
23. Dikembe Mutombo
24. Manu Ginobilli
25. Chauncey Billups
26. Deron Williams
27 Blake Griffin
28 John Wall

Some of those are definitely too early to tell but they played prior to 2011, a few will fail but a few guys we're not sure of will improve.
Ginobilli,Parker, Billups, Gasol may not have the statistics but have the post season credentials (re: a title) that puts them above Vince IMO.
Yao as I stated will be a political pick IMO, so it may not go but I can't see the first Chinese star not making it in. The first 12 picks should be 1st or 2nd ballot HOFer's IMO.


That's a decent list. I still think, though that Carter will get in, eventually.

Leaving aside the young guns about whom it is still too early to tell: Carmelo Anthony, I would say, will not get in. At least not based on his accolades so far. He needs... well, either another 3-4 ASGs or an All-NBA First Team selection, or obviously - a Championship ring, to get in. Right now - no. He is basically the new version of Bernard King and King isn't in the HOF either.

#67 ONLINE   Djoker

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:29 AM

mostly because they have no one else who's number is worth retiring, doesn't mean that they should though.


To be fair now looking at it objectively and it's very hard because I hate Vince, I think the Raptors should retire his number. He still did put in 7 great years of basketball and energized our franchise the way no one had done previously or since. The only period in history when our team was relevant and even a dark horse in the playoffs was when Carter was at the helm. I hate the guy but I can't ignore the years he played brilliantly for us because of the 1/2 season he slacked. He *** up but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything good in his career.

Most people outside Toronto don't know this but I've watched Carter through out his career even with the Nets. He always played to win, not to put up great numbers, and he was always very upset when his teams lost. My stomach was turning when we got upset by the Carter-led Nets in Round 1 but I appreciate his game.
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#68 OFFLINE   Vino

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 10:55 AM


To be fair now looking at it objectively and it's very hard because I hate Vince, I think the Raptors should retire his number. He still did put in 7 great years of basketball and energized out franchise the way no one had done previously or since. The only period in history when our team was relevant and even a dark horse in the playoffs was when Carter was at the helm. I hate the guy but I can't ignore the years he played brilliantly for us because of the 1/2 season he slacked. He *** up but it doesn't mean he didn't do anything good in his career.

Most people outside Toronto don't know this but I've watched Carter through out his career even with the Nets. He always played to win, not to put up great numbers, and he was always very upset when his teams lost. My stomach was turning when we got upset by the Carter-led Nets in Round 1 but I appreciate his game.


Too put it shorter: Vince has always been too much of a nice guy, just like David Robinson. He would rather let a teammate win a game then doing it all himself, something Kobe knows nothing about. But in the end, he should be taken that shot because he's the best player on the floor and good at it. But again, Vince just has always been too nice.
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#69 ONLINE   Rog

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 11:01 AM

How can you say Vince was more complete? The stats show he was marginally better at passing and yes I'll give you rebounding. Mitch was the better 3 pt shooter and 1.2 ppg is a wash IMO. So even if Vince MARGINALLY outperformed Mitch in scoring and passing does that make him a surefire HOF'er but Mitch should be ignored? I think both are very good not HOF material players, but Vince's eye pleasing style is clouding judgement.

Vince Carter is more 'known' than Mitch Richmond because of his dunks, not because of his spectacular skills. His game was better eye candy, but Mitch is on the same level as a player, he just played on one of the worst franchises for the prime of his career.

When you look at their career stats Vince Carter doesn't have anything that noticeably stands out ahead of Mitch. As my original point was that if VC is a certain HOF'er then Mitch Richmond should be considered too.

As for Carter's playoff stats... 41.5 FG% vs 47.9FG% is my retort.



People forget to realize that we are talking about something called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of super amazing basketball players.

Vince Carter was a on the fence HOF caliber basketball player, but when you consider everything else about him... he has to be a HOFer.

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#70 OFFLINE   ban me pheggets

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 09:24 PM

naah

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#71 OFFLINE   TeoTheGreek13

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

Hall of Fame is not just about accomplishments. Whoever is THE best at something, he's entering the HoF. Carter is THE best dunker ever and he re-revolutionized dunking which is the number one NBA product in the RS. Dunks = show = marketing etc.

He was one of the most talented players of the decade and generally (some say he was more talented than Kobe) but his work ethic contained him. Sadly.

He was a great scorer in his prime and he was almost unstoppable when he was in the zone.
They asked Shaq once that since he has played with Penny, Kobe and Wade, with which other player he'd like to play and he said Vince in order to get him (?) to the next level.

Carter's potentials were crazy but even though he didn't reach them, he was one of the best of the decade and he deserves to be in the Hall imho.

Too put it shorter: Vince has always been too much of a nice guy, just like David Robinson. He would rather let a teammate win a game then doing it all himself, something Kobe knows nothing about. But in the end, he should be taken that shot because he's the best player on the floor and good at it. But again, Vince just has always been too nice.

It's nice to see that there is an issue that we completely agree!!!
Well, he's our favorite player.
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#72 OFFLINE   Bball_Jones

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:46 PM

With some of the guys that got in he def can, plus he's the greatest dunker ever (tied with 'Nique imo).

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#73 OFFLINE   Antetokounmpo

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:52 PM

No. Great player though. But just because your great does not necessarily mean you should be in the Hall of Fame. His numbers and accomplishments need to better.


#74 OFFLINE   basketballfanatic

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 04:12 PM

With his dunks when he's young. But all around, no.

#75 OFFLINE   Reckless

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:40 PM

No. Great player though. But just because your great does not necessarily mean you should be in the Hall of Fame. His numbers and accomplishments need to better.


Reggie Miller is all I have to say to posts like this.

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