52 replies to this topic

[CelticPride]

Via ESPN Boston:“I can guarantee that the people in Minnesota, they miss what he does in the locker room,” Rivers said. “They miss what he does on the floor in practice everyday, his work ethic. He has this ability to give himself to a team. It’s rare that you see a superstar do that, and he does that. I mean, he gives himself completely to his team, and just tells them to use him whatever way, whatever you want. It’s nice to have. That’s what I think he brings to a franchise, is a star who is over himself and that’s really good.” Later Rivers added, “I don’t know if everyone understands, even on our team, or publicly, who Kevin Garnett really is. Just as far as what he’s done, his body of work. There’s the Hall of Fame, and then there’s the table at the Hall of Fame. And Kevin Garnett is at the table. Very few people get to sit at the table.”

Agree or disagree with River's statement?

[Thank God Im Atheist]

I disagree, that table only fits 6.

[CelticPride]

I disagree, that table only fits 6.

That's more like the VIP table.

[BayArea510]

I think Timmy D is at that table, not Garnett.

[Tebow Magic]

I think Timmy D is at that table, not Garnett.

Beat me to it.

[CelticPride]

I think Timmy D is at that table, not Garnett.

Why not both?

I think the top 20 players of all time fit at this "table". And KG is certainly a top 20 player of all time.

[Thank God Im Atheist]

That's more like the VIP table.

Lol.

Seriously though, KG obviously deserves more then just being in the hall of fame. Tons of players get in the HoF so I get what Doc is saying

[SportsFan93]

KG is better than TD. Give KG Manu and TP for all those years TD had him and the Spurs win at least 8 titles...

[Jay*]

Of course,Kevin Garnett is a beast. My favorite big men of all time. Top 20 player of all time. If he had a team like Duncan's around him,no doubt he'd go down as the best PF in my opinion

[Kobes 5th Ring]

KG is better than TD. Give KG Manu and TP for all those years TD had him and the Spurs win at least 8 titles...

No way KG isn't the go to scoring option TD is

[Volt]

KG is better than TD. Give KG Manu and TP for all those years TD had him and the Spurs win at least 8 titles...

that's about the most stupid thing i've ever heard.

with all due respect of course.

[BayArea510]

Why not both?

I think the top 20 players of all time fit at this "table". And KG is certainly a top 20 player of all time.

I had more of a feeling that the table was the greatest (maybe 2 greatest) players at each position. I don't know why but that's just how I felt that analogy went lol. Tim is the greatest PF and Karl Malone next (IMO).

[Lucifer]

Def agree w/ that. Top 20 player of all time, and has one of the best work ethics ever seen in the nba. Look how this guy takes care of himself. He's 36 and still playing like he's 32

[Jan_Sobieski™]

Are we talking about the right Kevin? Kevin McHale?

[SportsFan93]

No way KG isn't the go to scoring option TD is

KG is a better scorer, passer, defender, and rebound than TD. Does everything better. Look at his MVP season...5 apg from a PF in the 2000's. Crazy

[CelticPride]

I had more of a feeling that the table was the greatest (maybe 2 greatest) players at each position. I don't know why but that's just how I felt that analogy went lol. Tim is the greatest PF and Karl Malone next (IMO).

Yah, the top 3 PFs in my opinion goes
1. Tim Duncan
2. Karl Malone
3. Kevin Garnett

[cwang1393]

Both Tim Duncan and KG would be at the table.. But IMO KG has a bigger impact on both his own team and the opposing team.. Any team would want a player like these two no matter what even though their personalities are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

[84DaysWithout]

KG is better than TD. Give KG Manu and TP for all those years TD had him and the Spurs win at least 8 titles...

Eight titles? That’s two more than Jordan… I’m going to assume you were exaggerating.
The idea that Garnett would outperform Duncan in the same situation is pretty iffy if not provably false. When Garnett played for teams of similar strength to Duncan’s Spurs he didn't perform as well as Tim.

Take Garnett in 04. He had better support than Duncan did in 03, yet Duncan won the chip and Garnet did not.
Or look at at 08 Garnett in the championship Celtics team and 07 Duncan in the championship Spurs team...

08 Garnett:

• Regular Season: 18.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.3 bpg, 53.9% FG – 94 Defensive rating, 25.3 PER
• Playoffs: 20.4 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.5% FG – 99 Defensive rating, 23 PER

07 Duncan:

• Regular Season: 20.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.4 bpg, 54.6% FG – 94 Defensive rating, 26.1 PER
• Playoffs: 22.2 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.1 bpg, 52.1% FG – 99 Defensive rating, 27.4 PER

It’s not a landslide, but Duncan has generally been a more valuable contributor to winning teams. You might be able to argue that Garnett could equal Duncan’s 4 chips, but it would be a tough argument, and there's no way that he exceeds it.

KG is a better scorer, passer, defender, and rebound than TD. Does everything better. Look at his MVP season...5 apg from a PF in the 2000's. Crazy

Garnett is undoubtedly a better passer. Rebounding is a coinflip. And everything else I’d give to Duncan.

Garnett’s career Defensive rating is 99 compared to Duncan’s 95. Duncan has had 9 seasons with a Defensive ratings of 95 or lower compared to Garnet’s 4. And in 2004 Duncan had one of the bare handful of sub 90 Defensive ratings in NBA history. He’s led the league in Defensive win shares 5 times. Garnett never has. Duncan's also been a better rebounder over the course of his career, with better career averages, per 36 averages, and playoff averages. He directly outrebounded Garnett in 9 seasons to Garnet’s 5, and they tied 1 year. If you are going to make an argument for Garnett, it would be that he polled slightly better numbers in their respective primes. But he was competing with the likes of Michael Oliwakandi for boards while Duncan was competing with David Robinson. And, for scoring, again Duncan directly outscored Garnett in 9 seasons to Garnet’s 6. His career averages are higher, his per 36 averages are higher, and his playoffs averages are higher. Garnet is a lower volume scorer than Duncan, despite taking a dead equal number of shots per game and having his numbers inflated by playing on those poor Minnesota teams.

Timmy and KG are both on the table. But Timmy is closer to the head.

[CelticPride]

Eight titles? That’s two more than Jordan… I’m going to assume you were exaggerating.
The idea that Garnett would outperform Duncan in the same situation is pretty iffy if not provably false. When Garnett played for teams of similar strength to Duncan’s Spurs he didn't perform as well as Tim.

Take Garnett in 04. He had better support than Duncan did in 03, yet Duncan won the chip and Garnet did not.
Or look at at 08 Garnett in the championship Celtics team and 07 Duncan in the championship Spurs team...

08 Garnett:

• Regular Season: 18.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.3 bpg, 53.9% FG – 94 Defensive rating, 25.3 PER
• Playoffs: 20.4 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.1 bpg, 49.5% FG – 99 Defensive rating, 23 PER

07 Duncan:

• Regular Season: 20.0 ppg, 10.6 rpg, 3.4 apg, 2.4 bpg, 54.6% FG – 94 Defensive rating, 26.1 PER
• Playoffs: 22.2 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.1 bpg, 52.1% FG – 99 Defensive rating, 27.4 PER

It’s not a landslide, but Duncan has generally been a more valuable contributor to winning teams. You might be able to argue that Garnett could equal Duncan’s 4 chips, but it would be a tough argument, and there's no way that he exceeds it.



Garnett is undoubtedly a better passer. Rebounding is a coinflip. And everything else I’d give to Duncan.

Garnett’s career Defensive rating is 99 compared to Duncan’s 95. Duncan has had 9 seasons with a Defensive ratings of 95 or lower compared to Garnet’s 4. And in 2004 Duncan had one of the bare handful of sub 90 Defensive ratings in NBA history. He’s led the league in Defensive win shares 5 times. Garnett never has. Duncan's also been a better rebounder over the course of his career, with better career averages, per 36 averages, and playoff averages. He directly outrebounded Garnett in 9 seasons to Garnet’s 5, and they tied 1 year. If you are going to make an argument for Garnett, it would be that he polled slightly better numbers in their respective primes. But he was competing with the likes of Michael Oliwakandi for boards while Duncan was competing with David Robinson. And, for scoring, again Duncan directly outscored Garnett in 9 seasons to Garnet’s 6. His career averages are higher, his per 36 averages are higher, and his playoffs averages are higher. Garnet is a lower volume scorer than Duncan, despite taking a dead equal number of shots per game and having his numbers inflated by playing on those poor Minnesota teams.

Timmy and KG are both on the table. But Timmy is closer to the head.

KG's 2003-2004 team might have won if the two best players (Sam Cassell and Latrel Sprewell) on the team other than Garnett didn't get injured for the WCF against the Lakers and even then KG by himself made it a competitive 6 game series. And in the 2008 title run, everyone knew Garnett wasn't focused on scoring and deferred more to Pierce and Allen. You have to consider that Duncan was a top scoring option on the 2007 championship team.

Plus imo Garnett is a better defender because he helps the team more defensive wise. No one can command a defense like KG, barking orders and helping defenders. He is like a middle linebacker. Duncan is a better interior defender but if you look at the whole body of work, the better defender is KG. Also defensive rating is a stat that can be significantly influenced by the defense of the player's teammates.

[Clutch™]

In my mind, he's a top 15 player of all time, no doubt. I couldn't agree more. Honestly, just go to a Celtics game, or watch them more often. You will realise what he does. Even at age 36