19 replies to this topic

[Dr. Kratos]

If there were a 5 on 5 between Pat Riley's & Phil Jackson's best players as coaches or executives, who would win in a 7-game series?

Pat Riley's 5:

• Magic Johnson (1987)
• Dwyane Wade (2006)
• LeBron James (2012)
• Patrick Ewing (1994)
• Kareem Abdul-Jabar (1985)

Phil Jackson's 5:

• Scottie Pippen (1994) *Point-Forward
• Kobe Bryant (2008)
• Michael Jordan (1992)
• Dennis Rodman (1996)
• Shaquille O' Neal (2001)

I would say Pat Riley because, Phil Jackson has no "true" PG & a combo of Ewing + Abdul-Jabar will really wear down Shaq.

[Kobes 5th Ring]

If Phil Jackson is the one coaching then the PG doesn't matter because he used the triangle and MJ could create also

[Kill BeIl]

The team with jordan

scottie pippen would lock up magic

[Delirium]

That's not fair to add in Riley's players as executives. Jackson was never an executive so that shouldn't count.



But Phil anyway because Jordan

[Diamantidis is GOAT]

Riley.

[ban me pheggets]

Phil Jackson's if you think about it

[The Logo]

I'd take Riley's. Although the Triangle doesn't need a legitimate point guard, I think the prospect of having both Kobe and Jordan on the same team would throw off the team, while Magic and Lebron could control the tempo perfectly for Riley's hypothetical team. I disagree though about including players that Riley had when he was an executive.

[Delirium]

I think people really underestimate the power of Jordan too. He would own Lebron, straight up. And Shaq was one of the most dominant players in history. I don't care who's on the other team, if you got MJ AND Shaq on the same team, it's DONE.

[TeoTheGreek13]

It doesn't really matter that Jackson wouldn't have a PG because he actually never had (a great one). He was always running the triangle offense where you don't need a PG.

I'd go with Riley though because IMO, Jordan and Kobe wouldn't work... at least in team's favor. Riley's team is more balanced.

[Dr. Kratos]

@Delirium

I guess Riley would then need to call on James "Big Game" Worthy.

[AGOVA]

Ewing and KAJ would be a deadly combination, they'll probably dominate under the basket, mostly because they're taller but Shaq has Rodman and lets not forget what a great defender and rebounder he was. It's a nice match-up but I think Riley's two will overcome Phil's.
As for the perimeter, Pippen was a tough defender, he would definitely make it harder for Magic to pass the ball and drive to the hoop, but Magic was s great PG and he will find a way to play his game.
In a Dwayne Wade - Kobe Bryant match up, I think Wade will dominate. Imo, he was better in 2006 than Kobe was in 2008.
As for Jordan and Lebron, I gotta go with Jordan. Even though, LBJ is a better player overall, he can't stop MJ's fade away jumpshot. Michael is also a better defender due to the fact that he played in an era where defence was way more tougher than it is nowadays.
I don't know how Jordan and Kobe will get along in the attack, but still...

Both teams are really good, they have their strenghts and weaknesess and I will go with Phil's lineup in a playoff series. Jordan, Pippen and Rodman played in the same team for years, they know each other like they know their fingers.
To be honest, when I first saw the two teams, I was like "Wtf, Riley's 5, OF COURSE!"... I'm still a little bit torn.

Great topic, by the way!

[ISOMELO]

The team with jordan

scottie pippen would lock up magic

No, Pippen is not locking up Magic. Pippen is not stopping Magic from dishing 10+ assists nor is he stopping him from scoring efficiently. Contrary to popular belief Pippen did not shut down Magic in the '91 Finals, apart from game 2 Johnson went off. In game 5, Magic got a triple-double with 16 points, 11 rebounds and 20 assists. Magic got 10 assists every time and scored 20 points plus in 2 of the 4 games. Pat Riley's team wins mainly because Kobe and MJ do not fit on the same team. They are both extremely ball-dominant and have similar playing styles meaning they need the ball on the same spots on the floor. Among all these great scorers Rodman becomes a big offensive liability and defensively he isn't stopping 7-footers like Ewing and Kareem.

I think people really underestimate the power of Jordan too. He would own Lebron, straight up. And Shaq was one of the most dominant players in history. I don't care who's on the other team, if you got MJ AND Shaq on the same team, it's DONE.

Jordan isn't straight up owning LBJ, LeBron would get his. Jordan is GOAT, but don't overrate him. I see what you're saying but Riley's team has Magic and Kareem, two top three players in NBA history as well as LBJ who will at least go down to be top 5 IMO.

[Kill BeIl]

No, Pippen is not locking up Magic. Pippen is not stopping Magic from dishing 10+ assists nor is he stopping him from scoring efficiently. Contrary to popular belief Pippen did not shut down Magic in the '91 Finals, apart from game 2 Johnson went off. In game 5, Magic got a triple-double with 16 points, 11 rebounds and 20 assists. Magic got 10 assists every time and scored 20 points plus in 2 of the 4 games. Pat Riley's team wins mainly because Kobe and MJ do not fit on the same team. They are both extremely ball-dominant and have similar playing styles meaning they need the ball on the same spots on the floor. Among all these great scorers Rodman becomes a big offensive liability and defensively he isn't stopping 7-footers like Ewing and Kareem.

Jordan isn't straight up owning LBJ, LeBron would get his. Jordan is GOAT, but don't overrate him. I see what you're saying but Riley's team has Magic and Kareem, two top three players in NBA history as well as LBJ who well at least go down to be top 5 IMO.

lmao at AT LEAST
no he will not 'At least' go down in the top 5. he can end up anywhere. i see him reaching top 10 but to say he will at least go down top 5 is funny tbh

[Jan_Sobieski™]

The balance of Rileys team is truly the tipping scale for me.

[ISOMELO]

lmao at AT LEAST
no he will not 'At least' go down in the top 5. he can end up anywhere. i see him reaching top 10 but to say he will at least go down top 5 is funny tbh

I don't want to drift this off-topic, but LeBron is 27 years old he already has 3 MVP's, 8 All-Star Apperances, 8 All-NBA Teams, 4 Defensive First Teams, and a Finals MVP. He also almost has 20,000 points. I think it's safe to assume that LeBron can play 8-10 more years with the shape he keeps himself in and his love for the game, it's also safe to say he will win a few more championships in that span and will play at a reasonably high level in most of those years. It LeBron retires with 5 MVP's, 18 All-Star Apperances, 15 All-NBA teams, 10 All-Defensive selections, 3 Championships, to go along with 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists he isn't top 5?

[Kill BeIl]

I don't want to drift this off-topic, but LeBron is 27 years old he already has 3 MVP's, 8 All-Star Apperances, 8 All-NBA Teams, 4 Defensive First Teams, and a Finals MVP. He also almost has 20,000 points. I think it's safe to assume that LeBron can play 8-10 more years with the shape he keeps himself in and his love for the game, it's also safe to say he will win a few more championships in that span and will play at a reasonably high level in most of those years. It LeBron retires with 5 MVP's, 18 All-Star Apperances, 15 All-NBA teams, 10 All-Defensive selections, 3 Championships, to go along with 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists he isn't top 5?

Yea that will make him top 5 but that will be hard to accomplish. and he will definitely be top 10 all time but he isnt a lock for top 5 like you said. hell, he isnt even a lock for top 10
although i can see him possibly being the 2nd greatest of all time when its all said and done, i think its too early to project the outcome of his young career

[WTAP]

Just a quick question. Magic/Wade/Lebron all need the ball to be at their best as far as impact on the game goes.This doesn't necessarily mean scoring but it does mean having it in their hands. Why is that any different than Kobe/Jordan needing the ball to be at their best?

[TeoTheGreek13]

No, Pippen is not locking up Magic. Pippen is not stopping Magic from dishing 10+ assists nor is he stopping him from scoring efficiently. Contrary to popular belief Pippen did not shut down Magic in the '91 Finals, apart from game 2 Johnson went off. In game 5, Magic got a triple-double with 16 points, 11 rebounds and 20 assists. Magic got 10 assists every time and scored 20 points plus in 2 of the 4 games. Pat Riley's team wins mainly because Kobe and MJ do not fit on the same team. They are both extremely ball-dominant and have similar playing styles meaning they need the ball on the same spots on the floor. Among all these great scorers Rodman becomes a big offensive liability and defensively he isn't stopping 7-footers like Ewing and Kareem.

Pippen was amazing on Magic contrary to your belief. Stats don't say everything. If they did, people would assume that Russell did nothing when defending Wilt, Ben Wallace did nothing when defending Shaq etc.
Pippen made Magic's job way too tough. Magic was Magic and would held his own anyway but that doesn't mean that Pippen wasn't amazing guarding him.
He put a lot of pressure on him disturbing him very much at reading the game.

But even when looking at stats, Magic averaged 12.6 assists in the PS and Pippen, in the 4 of the 5 games of the series held Magic to 11, 10, 10 & 11 assists.
Also, in the first game Magic only took 5 FGAs and he shot 43% from the field in the series.

There is a documantary on Bulls 1995/96 title run on youtube named "Unstop-A-Bulls". This documentary suggests the same thing.

***Pippen was -most likely and IMO- the greatest perimter defender ever and probably no one had a better combination of defensive abilities, height and athletic abilities to guard Magic.

Just a quick question. Magic/Wade/Lebron all need the ball to be at their best as far as impact on the game goes.This doesn't necessarily mean scoring but it does mean having it in their hands. Why is that any different than Kobe/Jordan needing the ball to be at their best?

Because Kobe and Jordan both wanted the ball in order to shoot, not distribute. Especially Kobe.
Magicand James were both distributors. Especially Magic of course.

So...
Jordan/Kobe = selfish
Magic/James = unselfish

Wade was somewhere in the middle leaning to unselfish.

[The Future]

Close, but Riley's team.

Less chemistry issues, more open basketball (ala Showtime) and slightly better defense overall.

[Rio is G.O.A.T]

I'd have to say Jackson's team, only because of MJ and prime Shaq